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From: Ben Ravilious <Ben.Ravilious@crispgroup.co.uk>
To: "'Britdisc'" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Advance notice
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:13:50 +0100
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Oh great, another flame war.
----------
From: 	Andrew Tucker
Sent: 	15 July 1998 17:36
To: 	Ben Ravilious
Subject: 	RE: Advance notice

On 15 Jul 98, at 14:38, Ben Ravilious wrote:

> I agree. As long as essentially tart-based teams like your own go on
> skimming the cream (or is it scum ;-) from other places this will not
> happen. 

Ben, I hate to say it so bluntly, but I'm afraid once again you are 
talking crap. 

In your opinion.

Without going into too much detail, UTI formed three 
years ago, most of its team having played and graduated at 
Warwick together.
 As players at the time, we were not widely 
known, but due to ambition, hard work and perseverance we have 
improved to form what is still the core of a tour winning team. 

Sure - you're a great team (the best in UK it seems)

Of 
course a few extra players have joined along the way and a few 
have left, but it certainly wasn't a case of skimming the cream. To 
be honest I don't want anyones cream, especially if it's from Gun or 
Druids!

OK, but where do your players live? Would you call yourself a geo team? When was the last time you recruited a beginner? I am generalising here but I suspect the majority of your players dont have a local team they're supporting. Tell me I'm wrong - I'll shut up then!

I know the histories of Catch and Chevy are pretty similar, with the 
core of their teams being based on old Leeds and Manchester Uni 
teams.

> I hope UTI is the last such team to form in this country. 

On the contrary I hope more players will go on to form their own 
new teams, using UTI, Catch and Chevron as examples of what 
can be achieved.

Achievment at tournaments. But achievment in your cities/towns/villages?

> Whilst
> the levelling of the playing field has been welcome in terms of putting
> life into the championships your team's existance does nothing for the
> development of the sport.

Well I'm sorry you feel like that. It would seem to me that the depth 
and standard of UK ultimate has incresed dramatically over the last 
few years, in part I would hope to teams such as ourselves. 

Well the standard is sooo much better now and thats great. But I'm asking if thats at the expense of developing the player base.

Perhaps it would be better if we go back a few years to when any 
good Uni player was immediately snatched up by either Gun or 
Druids, rather than going on to form a new team of their own.

Er...I think not - isn't that practice dying out now?

> I say strengthen the "geo" team spec. initially. however, some day soon
> the ability to practice together will win through.

This is the only bit of sense you've written, practice and hard work  
are obviously crucial to any successful team.

> Hmm. the good graduates invariably end up playing for tart teams it seems.

You seem very bitter, is this caused by no-one wanting to play with 
Red I wonder?

Well its hard not to be a bit bitter when you're up against a team who have grabbed the best players from whereever just to win. I'm saying the ultimate satisfaction is in having nurtured them from year zero. Red are a great example of that and I'm very proud of that (cant you guess ;-) We're also becoming a threat so that makes me feel even better ;-)

Colin's original email which sparked this thread just seemed odd because here was a player on what started off essentially as a pick up team preaching about bringing on new players! Maybe there's a dedicated team of Colin's out there! 

Does anyone else have anything to say on this subject? This is a really vital issue dont you think? Discuss....

We WILL get you one day!

> Ben
> 
> Up the revolution!
> (don't flame us - we'll flame you!)

Five tour events and I'm still waiting....

One season and you're smug....

Ben

Keep smiling,
Andy - Under-the-Influence