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From: Chris Hughes <cjhughes@talk21.com>
To: "britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
"'Paul Meaney'"
<p.meaney@familygenetix.com>
Subject: RE: Please stop (RANT INCLUDED!!!)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:38:07 +0100
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Paul,
I am well aware of your credentials in organising tournaments - for your interest I was there the year the Rotterdam bar shut on Saturday night because it ran out of beer. It would be no coincidence that it was one of the first years it ran, and also the first year it had more than 16 teams. Tournament organisers learn from their mistakes, but so do the venues - they have to make the mistake first. This was not the first time an ultimate tournament has drunk the bar dry, and I will be very disappointed with the upcoming generation of players if it is the last.
On a more serious note; Quality assurance of the pitches -
Ian and Nancy, are at the moment on holiday, which is why they are not replying to a lot of these themselves. I cannot comment on what they were promised. What I do know is this, they were promised that the pitches were to be rolled, mown, and properly marked out. I also know that when they visited the site, initially before Christmas, and since, the weather had been very bad, and like any venue the ground was soft and squishy. This does not forgive the unevenness of the pitches. I know this because I have already asked the same questions of the pair. Nancy has already made the racecourse very aware that she was not impressed, and will be taking up the matter with management. I know that she hopes to get a significant refund, but at this stage I cannot promise anything. Rocks? let's put this into context, none of these 'rocks' was more that 2 inches across, yes it would have hurt if you had laid out onto it, but the only reason we found so many was due to the number of people looking. Go to the beach looking for a particular shell you'll be there all week, 800 players at paganello should be able to get you one within 10 minutes. At Swindon we were five minutes into a game at the first ever tour event before we found the manhole cover on the pitch - the groundsman had been helpful and painted it green so that it blended in.
So what about the decision to actually go there in the first place. Well despite what you think, this is a great example of 'if you can do better - why didn't you'. I had only four bids for the tour. Which was nice, because we had already agreed at the AGM that there would be four events this year (The AGM actually agreed that one event would be split North / South, but that was decided to be unworkable, ignoring the fact that I had no northern bids). What if I had had more bids - well I would probably have gone with those venues that had proved themselves. I know what Swindon, and Southampton have to offer. Similarly I know what Exeter / Sheffield / Hitchin / Edinburgh, and all the other places we have been to, can do. But I was relying on the TD's to assure me that a venue is up to scratch. Ian and Nancy are both experienced ultimate players, and saw the potential that the venue had given the conditions. They are then relying on the site organisation to come through with their promises.
Someone asked me why I didn't go to the site to check it? I have a job, and a life, and don't have the time or the money to go to Towcester from Cheltenham and back to check a venue. I do this job for free, and for the fun(!) of putting something back into the sport that has given me so much enjoyment. What if I got a bid from Glasgow - should I have gone to check their venue? Would I have seen anything more than an experienced ultimate player would have spotted?
Penalties for TD's - don't talk bollocks; a) who's going to decide on the penalties, my shower was hot, I had all the food I needed (I brought my own), and I never had to walk to the toilets. b) how are you going to force them to pay up? (don't even suggest penalising a team for an individuals tournament) c) the price of a tournament is bloody cheap at the moment - you 'should' get one hell of a lot for your 80 - 90 these things are not cheap. So what when the TD / venue don't stump up. Well, as Wayne said, Ian and Nancy are going back to the venue to discuss payment, and I have already made it clear to Nancy that any reduced costs on their behalf should be returned to the teams that entered. Ignoring that Nancy 'made' a four hundred pound loss on the event in an attempt to ensure that teams got what they deserved.
For all the problems with T2 this year, I hope one good thing has come out of it - players need to rethink their attitudes towards the sport, what they want from an event, what they can reasonably expect, and how the tournaments and the tour are going to have to change to provide it.
Chris
DoC
----------
From: Paul Meaney[SMTP:p.meaney@cherwell.com]
Sent: 26 May 2000 17:40
To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Please stop (RANT INCLUDED!!!)
> than adequate pitch so please please please can we stop complaining and
> start writing productive emails
<with restrained patience>
I am aksing for a reasoned debate on the subject.
the last I heard, in a democracy, resoned intelligent debate is a way to
move things forward.
I am simply asking what kind of quality control the u8c implements.
> If you have no solutions don't complain
ah! the exuberance of youth!
> I am part of an Ultimate team that may fold next year if we cant get any
> freshers to join
> so please use Britdisc as a way help clubs that need to promote the
sport!!!
Britdisc is a forum for discussion of all aspects of Disc sports.
Please feel free to start a seperate thread. There are hundreds of
people (myself included) who have been part of the successful running of
University clubs. Start by asking.
In the meantime, my concern still stands.
If you want to know what I want to see - fine. We get enough 'lets
penalise teams blah blah blah..." How about penalising TD's for not
delivering the goods.
eg -
crap pitches - knock £10 quid off the entry fee
no food available - knock off a fiver
cold showers - knock off a fiver
No showers - knock off a tenner
no party -knock off a fiver
I am sick and tired of going to tournaments, having something cock
up because the TD didn't make a simple phone call to ensure that a service
was guaranteed, we don't get what we pay for, but the TD''s still end up
cleaning up and we STILL end up paying 80/ 90/ 100 quid for less than
brilliant service.
Bloody hell, can you imagine going to Rotterdam and having the bar shut!
there'd be uproar! The AirBreakers had the right idea - they couldn't do it
100% so than rather compromise, they cancelled!
The powers that be are all for penalising teams for not showing.
How about penalising TD's for NOT GETTING THE JOB DONE!!!
You will then argue 'but then no- one will organise a tournament'
maybe - but those who DO will make damn sure they get it RIGHT!!!
rant over.
Paul
--- ---
Dr Paul Meaney | e-mail: p.meaney@cherwell.com
Java Developer | Phone: +44 (0)1865 784800 ext. 4839
FamilyGenetix Ltd | Fax: +44 (0)1865 784801
Oxford OX4 4GA, UK | URL: http://www.cherwell.com
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