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From: John Taylor <john.e.taylor@kcl.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:59:49 +0000
To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk, student-ultimate@egroups.com
Subject: RE: [student-ultimate] Re: Midland's Student Qualifier: GBH Decis ion
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Just a quick one, honest,
Could someone please let me know where I can find the complete set of
rules for student ultimate, and ultimate in general for that matter.
Although this is my third year of ultimate, its my first year of
actually running the team. And although Kings were never going to
challenge for a final place at the SE qualifiers, so it doesn't really
matter, if a "part-time" student had turned up to training I would
definately have brought him along, completely unaware that I was
'cheating'.
I just think it would be a good idea to clarify things now to avoid
people like myself inadvertantly walking through red tape.
Thanks in advance,
John (KCL)
On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:39:24 +0000 (GMT) andy cox <ajc298@soton.ac.uk>
wrote:
> Sorry guys, time for another tuppence-worth.
>
> Why in a sport where we pride ourselves on our SOTG and
> general opinion of "play because we enjoy it" rather than
> "play to win at all costs" do we say part-time students are
> inellegible? I cannot see how this helps anyone in any way.
>
> Surely a student is a student whatever way you look at it
> and all of us should be entitled to play in student tournys
> and represent the university we are a member of. Even if in
> five years time I become a good player (some chance!) and
> take a part-time course at a university I would hope to be
> allowed to play student games again. Because I would be a
> student. Maybe in the Mythago v Mowhawks example it was
> slightly different - were the inellegible players attending
> Sussex at the time? If so, I'd say let them play. Oxbridge
> let foreigners row for them against each other, why do we
> have to limit the people who can play for us? This seems to
> me to have no practical use, please correct me if I've
> missed something.
>
> Also, who knows of these rules in their first tournament?
> I've played for two years and this is the first I've heard
> of part-time students being inelligible. Where do you find
> these things out? I've no idea and didn't think there was
> any real need to as for the most part I've experienced
> nothing but commmon sense prevailing in ultimate.
>
> Hoping I don't sound too self-righteous,
>
> Angie (Skunks)
>
> PS We didn't use any part-time students in the SW
> qualifiers!
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:09:52 +0000 (GMT) Ben Booth
> <booth@atm.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I agree that eligibility rules should exist, and that once there they
> > should be used. While I think its reasonable to expect established teams
> > - like Bears, Muncic and Ow - to be aware of these rules and abide by
> > them, the problem arose with the new sides. The Midlands qualifiers saw a
> > record 28 teams entered. Many of them have never competed at that level
> > before and most of these teams were completly new to us.
> >
> > How many of us could have quoted the student eligilbility rule before this
> > tournament - I couldn't. I rely on the more experienced members of my
> > team to be on top of this. But there isn't that history of of playing in
> > Student competions in the 6-8 new teams who played last weekend. GBH
> > hasn't a team trained by an old frisbee hand but a bunch of folk who
> > decieded that they wanted to play and got themselves there - and into the
> > final of the qualifiers.
> >
> > With GBH disqualified, we all lost out, GBH, Bears and student ultimate.
> > If new teams are out there and are going to come into the sport and put
> > forward serious challanges - we need to ensure that they are aware of the
> > situation before the semi-final stage of the competition. This need to be
> > a wake up call to the student body that we need to ensure that new teams
> > are aware of the situation before hand. Who failed in this situation GBH
> > for not checking meticulously enough or Student ultimate for not ensuring
> > that they were aware.
> >
> > Ben Booth('s two pence)
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, ANDY COTGREAVE wrote:
> >
> > > GBH,
> > > The eligibility rules should exist, and should be in place. Several years
> > > ago, Mohawks beat Mythago in the Outdoor Student Finals. Three weeks later,
> > > they were stripped of the title because they fielded students from overseas
> > > - it so happened that those players *did* make a difference: there wasn't
> > > much argument to be made.
> > >
> > > You ask for leniency in your case, but as Tim pointed out, *you* should have
> > > known the rules, and *you* should have made it clear to the TD, at the start
> > > of the tournament, that you wished to see some flexibility in the rules.
> > >
> > > It's harsh, but you cannot blame someone else for your own inability to read
> > > the eligibility rules. They are there for very good reasons. Yeah, Spirit
> > > can be applied, but Spirit means playing by the rules, just as much as it
> > > means playing with silly hats on, or getting pissed in the bar.
> > >
> > > Andy Cotgreave
> > > Chevron
> > > (and I was on the Mythago team that "won" the student nationals that year,
> > > too!)
> > >
> > >
> > > STANDARD DISCLAIMER: This message is confidential. You should not copy it or
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ----------------------
> andy cox
> ajc298@soton.ac.uk
>
----------------------
John Taylor
john.e.taylor@kcl.ac.uk