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From: Chris Hughes <cjhughes@talk21.com>
To: "britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
"'cabrejas@ceinrema.com'" <cabrejas@ceinrema.com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:04:41 +0100
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Juan,
Okay fair points - lets try and deal with them reasonably.
1. Food - the food wasn't dirt cheap - but it wasn't outrageous. However the MAFF rules were simple - adhere or no event. I know some people were arrogant, and selfish enough to ignore all our requests to stick to them (both on the food front and showering). I assume that these people know enough about the virus and its vector patterns to gamble other peoples livelihoods for the sake of a couple of quid or a couple of minutes in the shower. I appreciate the efforts that most people put in.
2. Showers - The hot showers all round concept was toast the moment we started asking over 400 people to have showers in about 1 hour. However people did have hot showers - some people had showers so hot you couldn't stand under them (I was not one of those people - but I did have 1 hot shower, 1 warm shower, 1 bearable shower, and 1 refrigerated shower).
Even without the MAFF issue nowhere will cope with that number of people showering to provide everyone with hot toasty showers - warm is as best as you can expect. Why? Consider the numbers the venue expects to cope with. The site had 8 rugby / football pitches, maybe 10 max. Since they will never fill all the rugby and football pitches at one time they are designed to cope with half the number of showers. Ultimate tournaments get one hell of a lot of people in a very small area, only 14 on pitch but another 10 on the sideline, and 3 ultimate pitches to 2 football pitches, and all of a sudden we have between 2 to 3 times the capacity that they never expect to fill.
So lets tighten up the contractual side of things, get venues to guarantee hot showers - now you are into lawyers and other expensive stuff - the cost of events will escalate at an even sillier rate, for an opportunity to get 20 pounds per team back. Besides, as someone who has organsied more events than probably anyone else in the country - I wouldn't touch an event that got involved in serious contractual agreements beyond hire agreement - far too complicated, and far too much hassle. These are the exact reasons (contractual grief) as to why Nolan has been unable to organise the Open last year and this year.
So how else to get warm showers - smaller events. Reduce the number of people going through the shower, and you won't drain the tank. Or bigger venues - which are even fewer than the venues we have at the moment, and even more expensive. Or you stagger the timing. Rotterdam, like Southampton, used to have warm showers the whole time when the weather was good, because everyone is camping and eating on site. So you would have a beer or two. Then see if the showers were hot and empty. If not go back to the bar and wait, and despite playing your last game at 6 you would get to the shower (with a beer) at 9 in the evening - no rush. But if the weather was cold and wet - the showers would be swamped in the rush, and cold. Likewise if you are going somewhere at the end of the day, and not camping on site - but then you shower elsewhere.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't expect to have a hot (or at least warm) shower, but you just have to look at how rarely you get one at a major ultimate event to determine that there is something fundamentally wrong with our events that will need a drastic change to solve.
I would be interested to here peoples (sensible) suggestions as to how this could be done. But I would also like to reserve judgement until I see future events this year to see just how the complications at T1 added to the problems.
Chris
DoC
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From: cabrejas[SMTP:cabrejas@ceinrema.com]
Sent: 23 April 2001 19:28
To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Hi all,
After a tournament like Tour I in Bristol this last weekend, it is normal to send messages saying how well things worked and Iīm sure others will do that much better than me.
But there is another side to it, and I just wanted to mention the things that could have been better. Before Tour I, I remember reading something about a cheap food option. In the future it may be better to refer to it like fast food, so nobody gets disappointed. I didnīt find it especially cheap, especially since we were told not to bring any food or drinks into the venue (I admit I didnīt understand the reason for that, with or without foot and mouth).
And I also remember reading loads of comments on hot water. It almost seemed like we would be going into a sauna after the games. Well, I donīt know about the female showers, but the male showers were not hot at all. No wonder somebody must have had a warm shower some time during the weekend but we "all" were supposed to have hot showers, not just some lucky ones.
I guess the organizers will not be so kind as to give part of our money back and Iīm sure some will say they are not the ones to blame. Well, who is it, then? In the future maybe the venues can be contracted on the basis that if not enough hot water is provided then we get some of our money back? I donīt know, but maybe we all can get some ideas going. And donīt get me wrong, a tenner up or down will not make much of a difference, but a service who is up to what is expected definitely would.
Finally, sorry for the lengthy e-mail, but Iīm sure Iīm not the only one who noticed this.
Kind regards,
Juan Carlos
Flyght Club