From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Thu Jun 7 14:48:45 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f57DjP504471 for britdisc-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:45:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@snowdrop [137.205.192.31]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f57DjLp04453 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:45:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from mailgw.chelt.ac.uk (mailgw.chelt.ac.uk [194.81.184.203]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f57DjKt28800 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:45:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from exchange.chelt.ac.uk (unverified) by mailgw.chelt.ac.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <Tc251b8cb53ffbe1bf0@mailgw.chelt.ac.uk>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:42:14 +0100 Received: by exchange.chelt.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <ML1CG8P4>; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:42:05 +0100 Message-ID: <E8E2FD6D7B77D411A768009027E01DB301E19291@exchange.chelt.ac.uk> From: "HUGHES, Chris" <CHughes@chelt.ac.uk> To: "'Miranda Kuiper'" <miranda_kuiper@hotmail.com>, britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: RE: ultimate rules, start stalling Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:42:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The rules on stall are quite clear on a number of points: You can start stalling the moment that a player has possession ie has control of the disc, AND has established a pivot point; AND if you are within 3m to initiate the stall count. So you can start stalling the moment a player has landed from catching a disc (if they use more than their three contacts you have a choice - continue stalling or call travel) If the player has laid out you can stall them before they get up. However if a player lands in - but runs or slides out of bounds; you can only stall once they return to the pitch If a player picks the disc up you can start stalling the moment the put the disc in play - so cleaning / drying the disc can be stalled (Although this is at your discretion, so they may let you off if you let them off). Remember that if you pick the disc up out of bounds, and walk it to the sideline or end zone line the disc does not have to touched in by the opposition, you can just start stalling once they establish a pivot foot. If a player injures themselves during a catch or dive for the disc, remember that the injury time out, irrelevant of when it is called, occurs at the time of the injury. So if you get the stall to seven before someone rolls over after a layout to call a T/O the stall goes back to when they injured themselves - ie on landing and so a stall of zero at the restart. There are no WFDF rules about stalling a grounded disc before it is put into play. They rules say that you must put the disc in play as soon as possible, and cannot stand over the disc, but have no penalties to enforce if you do. The rule on stalling a grounded disc was a UPA rule, that was removed after a trial period. Loop-Hole: The WFDF rules state that you need to be within 3m to 'initiate' a stall count. But doesn't say that you have stay within 3m to continue stalling. So run to cover deep whilst continuing to stall loud enough so that the player in possession can hear you (That is a requirement by the rules - so no stalling under your breath). Good argument to ensue. Somehow I don't think that this was the intention of the rules - as ever SOTG applies above all else. Chris DoC -----Original Message----- From: Miranda Kuiper [mailto:miranda_kuiper@hotmail.com] Sent: 07 June 2001 14:14 To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: ultimate rules, start stalling I am not much of a e-list writer, but this is annoying me so much I just want to settle this for once and for all. I got a discussion on the pitch now a couple of times about the timing of starting stalling. Perhaps it's a UK thing but players around here tend to start stalling while the thrower-to-be is not in possession yet. The reason they come up with is "you are allowed to start stalling 3 meters away from the thrower, even if the thrower-to-be is not in possession of the disc yet." Well maybe it's me, but you are only a thrower if you have possession of the disc. See quote of WFDF rules: 4.10 The Thrower: A. A player may become "the thrower" by fielding a pull, receiving the disc from a teammate, intercepting a pass from an opponent, or by picking up the disc after a turnover. Whenever the disc is on the ground following a turnover, whether in or out-of-bounds, any player becoming offense may take possession of the disc and become the thrower. So in my view you are only allowed to start stalling if the handler is in possession. And yes, it that case you may start on 3 m distance. See WFDF rules about possession and stalling: 404.12 The Receiver: A. Possession: A receiver gains possession by demonstrating sustained contact and control of a non-spinning disc while the receiver is on the ground and in-bounds 404.11B. Stalling: Once a marker is within 3 m of the thrower, he or she may initiate a count. This consists of the marker calling, "Stalling," and then counting at one second intervals to ten. I do know that at WC and EC a rules is used for preventing the game from any delay. But I cannot find the rules on the WFDF site. Based on my memory that rule allowed a defender to start stalling by touching the disc while the thrower-to-be had not touched the disc yet, in order to prevent delay in the game. As I remember that rule, you had to restart stalling once the thrower became indeed a thrower by picking up the disc. Therefore offence was only allowed 10 sec's to get set up. Perhaps somebody can get hold of this specific rule, so we will all know the right way to start stalling. If we can find this rule, I also would like to know if this rule applyes only to WC and EC, or also to the Tours. Since they do not seem to be stated in the WFDF rules on the web-site. Once more, this e-mail is not to start an e-mail chain of reactions, but to settle this for once and for all, because I prefer not to have this discussion on the pitch. Cheers, Miranda _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.