From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Apr 2 00:43:23 1997 Received: by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk id AAA05414; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:24:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from wol.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk with SMTP id AAA05404; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:24:18 +0100 (BST) Received: by wol.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk (UK-Smail 3.1.25.1/15) id <m0wCCuR-000028C@wol.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk>; Wed, 2 Apr 97 00:24 BST Message-Id: <m0wCCuR-000028C@wol.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 97 00:24 BST From: mackay@mrao.cam.ac.uk (David J.C. MacKay) To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk, kevin.lowe@curved-logic.com Subject: Re: Rules Question 2 Cc: mackay@mrao.cam.ac.uk Sender: owner-britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >> The rules state, "Receiving players may >> not go out-of-bounds to make a play on the disc". Yes, I agree, the rules say this, and it seems ambiguous what it means. However, let's look at the big picture. This means reading the next two sentences in the rules. Here they are. Receiving Players: Receiving players may not go out-of-bounds to make a play on the disc. For a receiver to be considered in-bounds at the time of gaining possession of the disc, the player's first point of contact with the ground must be completely in-bounds. If any portion of the first point of contact is out-of-bounds, the player is considered out-of-bounds. Definition Player: A player is out-of-bounds whenever he is contacting an out-of-bounds area. When a player is in the air, whether he is in or out-of-bounds is determined by where he last contacted the ground. I think this makes it pretty clear. The first part of this paragraph, quoted by Kevin, says "receiver may not go out bounds to make a play". You ask `but what does that mean?' The second part says what the definition of "out of bounds" is. Why is this definition given here? I think it is given in order to *explain* the first sentence `Receiving players may not go out-of-bounds...' So my interpretation of the sentence quoted by Kevin is this: Imagine you are defining the rules of ultimate to someone. One of the basic rules you will tell them is "The offence cannot go and run off the playing field". I think that this is all that is being explained. It is a basic rule stating that you can't go touch the disc off the field. If there really *were* still a rule about being ineligible to receive the disc until the next pass, the rules would surely spell this out? As it is, I reckon the rules say "You can't receive out of bounds; the definition of out of bounds is that the current / previous ground contact was out of bounds, and when you receive the disc your the next ground contact must be in bounds too." I found Patrick's old grey comments on this very helpful. In case anyone wants to be reminded of what he said, I'm logging this correspondence here: http://wol.ra.phy.cam.ac.uk/ultimate/eligible.txt All the best, David