From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk  Tue Oct 16 11:36:09 2001
Received: (from daemon@localhost)
	by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9GAPNZ19591
	for britdisc-outgoing; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:25:23 +0100 (BST)
Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30])
	by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9GAPKX19580
	for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:25:20 +0100 (BST)
Received: from mailhost.spencerstuart.com (10.spencerstuart.enterconnect.net [216.80.20.106])
	by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id f9GAPJC25346
	for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:25:19 +0100 (BST)
Received: from 10.51.1.50 by mailhost.spencerstuart.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 16 Oct 2001 05:36:29 -0500
Received: by EURMAILHUB with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
	id <4W0RS1GB>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:23:06 +0100
Message-ID: <1CE8BED757A5D411B85F0002B30806B76F5313@FRANTAPP01>
From: "Ziants, Wayne" <WZiants@spencerstuart.com>
To: "'info@hammerage.com'" <info@hammerage.com>,
   "'britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk'" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Savage Tournie London
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:23:05 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

For what it's worth, there's been an annual (open) Savage Seven tournament
in Germany for many years, and I played in September 2000 for German outdoor
champs Feldrenner (namedrop).  Yes it was hard work, as expected, 11x30
minute games (plus Guts) over two days, not helped by +30 C temperatures,
but it was noticeable that, just like in all regular fun tournaments here,
pretty much every one of the 14 teams played with at least one woman.
That's just how it is, no rule about it.  

For the record, we were beaten in the final (sudden death, gah!) by Kleine
Feiglinge, who played the whole weekend with 2 women.  They also won the
Guts competition, with the women also featuring heavily.

Hope the London thing works out for you all, women too.

Cheers
your German correspondent
Wayne
Team 42 


-----Original Message-----
From: Cahill,Maria [mailto:Maria.Cahill@uk.gases.boc.com]
Sent: Freitag, 12. Oktober 2001 23:39
To: Sean Holden; 'info@hammerage.com'; 'britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk'
Subject: RE: Savage Tournie London


Ken/Sean,

I have no agenda in this instance (shyeah right!!), like I said I heard a
few people talking about this particular tournament and playing savage in a
stadium sounds completely kick ass... congrats to whoever thought up the
idea. 

It seems obvious to me, though, that if you are going to organise a savage
tournament for the top twelve teams and not make it compulsory co-ed, no
team is going to willingly invite women to play as, in most instances, it
will obviously weaken their squad. (No offence meant, ladies) So... it's a
twelve team tournament right? Well why not make each team play with one
woman, I bet there are twelve keen ladies out there. That way everyone's a
winner. If it is not possible this year then there is always next time
round.

Maria

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Holden [mailto:sean.holden@framestore.co.uk]
Sent: 11 October 2001 6:35 PM
To: Cahill,Maria
Subject: Re: Savage Tournie London


Not my tournament, can't make that decision.  I was just surprised with
the reaction.  I can understand that it is hard for women.  My point was
just that how do you think women would react if there was a men only
tournament?  I realise that this tournament wasn't intended for this and
that it does appear to be going down that road, but there are women
only tournaments that occur, albeit not often, and it looked like the
problem here is that this tournament has become men only.  So, are we
only allowed womens/coed/open tournaments?  Maybe I came over
incorrectly.  I wasn't trying to offend, just raise an opposing view.

Sean


"Cahill,Maria" wrote:

> Sean,
>
> If this is the tournament I have heard people chatting about, it sounds
> pretty exciting and I too would love to be a part of it. Did I get the
> impression from Becca's last mail that there is no opportunity of holding
a
> co-ed division? I'm sure there are quite a few women who would love to be
> involved.
>
> Maria
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rebecca Humphries [mailto:beccahumphries@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 11 October 2001 10:18 AM
> To: sean.holden@framestore.co.uk; britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Savage Tournie London
>
> Great argument Sean!!!! The female players in this country are soooooo
> selfish organising their own tournaments!!!! The Savage tournie is not
men's
> only, it's Open.
>
> The point I was trying to make is Open tournaments make it really hard for
> women to find teams and compete fairly at a high level. If you want a
> tournament to have mixed teams I think it is a good idea to specify the
> split.
>
> If not, fine, have an Open tournament, I totally appreciate why people,
> including myself, like playing single sex Ultimate. However, maybe a
women's
> division should be offered at these tournaments AND the final should be
> played on the top field before the Open final.
>
> The Savage tournie, because of field and time restrictions was probably
not
> a good example - my apologies.
>
> Nuff said, I'll stop filling your inboxes.
>
> Becca
>
>
> >From: "Sean Holden"
> >To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk
> >Subject: Re: Savage Tournie London
> >Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:01:37 +0100
> >
> >Whilst I agree with your sentiments in principal, what I think you are
> >saying is that you are unhappy that this will be an all mens event.
> >When
> >have any men complained about the fact that women organise
> >tournaments purely for themselves?
> >
> >Sean (Druids. The only top 4 team to have a women playing for them)
> >
> >
>
>   _____
>
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> <http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp>
>
> *********************************************************************
> This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for
> the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus
> Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use
> local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
> *********************************************************************
>
> *********************************************************************
> This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for
> the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus
> Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use
> local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
> *********************************************************************
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    Part 1.2    Type: application/ms-tnef
>            Encoding: base64


*********************************************************************
This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for
the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus 
Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use
local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
*********************************************************************

*********************************************************************
This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for
the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus 
Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use
local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses.
*********************************************************************