From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Oct 31 16:04:34 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9VG0vG05345 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:00:57 GMT Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@snowdrop [137.205.192.31]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9VG0tX05334 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:00:55 GMT Received: from gateway.domain (teamco-activ-6.dsl.easynet.co.uk [217.204.220.150]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9VG0sR06641 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:00:54 GMT Received: by GATEWAY with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <VT1ZBX9W>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:07:24 -0000 Message-ID: <C3517E8D620CD411B3FC00C04FA164E915439B@GATEWAY> From: Jakob Donkersloot <jakob.donkersloot@co-activ.com> To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: RE: women Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:07:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Can I just point out that I reckon this discussion is a pointless exercise if the only people taking part are about 3 blokes and a load of rather experienced female players who, though they are a good example of the fact that ultimate is a sport that both sexes can play competitively and excel in, they are not representative of the 'target group' as I understand it, especially not at student level. Personally I don't think co-ed is the way forward for drawing more women into the sport. The difference in physique is too much of a factor in beginners with little disc skills and tactical insight. This means that women automatically start off on the wrong foot, EVEN if they are marked by other girls and especially indoors, where there is little space between players and poaching defenders essentially mark girls too and zones defy the whole girl-on-girl point. I'll stop there and leave people to comment, although I think the whole situation could be helped a lot by just asking all those girls who signed up last year for student teams, and who are still playing, how they felt about the 'battle of the sexes'.By asking all those girls who signed up last year and stopped coming what the reason was for doing so. And finally asking all the girls who signed up this year what they expect and what they think will help. Also, you'll find that if you put the issue as the responsibility of all ultimate players, rather than a girls vs. boys discussion, we might be able to get out of the vicious circle. I was going to stop, wasn't it? Hedge (YBK/NR) -----Original Message----- From: Jesper.Snorgaard@csplc.com [mailto:Jesper.Snorgaard@csplc.com] Sent: 31 October 2001 07:16 To: Deffley Leanne Cc: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: RE: women That is the thing we have been trying. Every year we start out with some 30 women and then they dissapear. I guess I must scare them off. ;) It is something that for the last 3 years I have been trying to find out how to deal with. You women out there what would keep women coming to practices which are dominated by over enthusiastic beginner lads? That will be the key to this issue in my opinion. Jes Deffley Leanne <ECSLDEFF@livjm.ac.uk> on 31/10/2001 15:09:39 To: "'Jesper.Snorgaard@csplc.com'" <Jesper.Snorgaard@csplc.com> cc: "'britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk'" <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: RE: women Do you think that by HAVING to play women (2-5/1-6/whatever) in student ultimate that would FORCE teams to have to encourage women to play, women would have a more definite role to play in the team and as they had that status, they would themselves have more motivation to remain in the game? Just a thought Leanne -----Original Message----- From: Jesper.Snorgaard@csplc.com [mailto:Jesper.Snorgaard@csplc.com] Sent: 31 October 2001 14:54 To: Rebecca Humphries; Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: re: women Becca, I think it could be an interesting idea but unfortunately making students co-ed is not possible. Most uni clubs just simply do not have enough women. Last year we had about 7 women in the club. Some more dedicated than others and even that wouldn't ensure they could make it to the tourneys. That was a good year for us. The other years I have played we have not had that many women and that would be even worse. My point is if you make student nationals 2-5 split then a lot of teams would be unable to enter. Sorry but there aren't enough women in student ultimate for it. I would encourage women to play and have tried. We did have a woman on our student team last year and she played as much as any of us and still came 2nd so keep them coming... Jesper "Rebecca Humphries" <beccahumphries@hotmail.com>@warwick.ac.uk on 31/10/2001 14:04:29 Sent by: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk To: maaafy_bird@yahoo.co.uk, Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk cc: Subject: re: women Want some more opinion - I doubt it!! Just a thought, but can't student regionals/nationals etc be a 2-5 split. You don't need to organise a whole new student competition, just change the gender criteria (it's not strictly co-ed so you don't even have to call it that). It's bloody tough being a woman in student frisbee. When I left uni no one wanted us to play in their teams, so a group of chicks organised their own team - Funky Nuns/Women in Black - and spent a year and a half losing every game we played!! Attitudes towards women players has to change at the roots - women will practise, practise, practise if they think it's worth their while. >From: Nicole Roberts >To: Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk >Subject: re: women >Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:34:01 +0000 (GMT) > >Personally, if that's the way that leeds play then I >feel very sorry for Anna. > >If you look at the top four teams in student nationals >last year, 3 of them had a woman playing for them. I >appreciate that one out of fifteen isn't much, but >it's a start. > >A student co-ed tournament is, in my opinion, an >excellent idea, however it's ran (a 5-2 ratio may be >necessary). > >By effectively forcing women on the pitch by playing >co-ed can only improve the playing standard of student >women's ultimate, as if any team actually wants to do >reasonably well then they'll have to use all seven >players, not just players without breasts... > >Anyroad, this is probably a bit of a pointless mail >unless we have some university that's willing to host >co-ed nationals, and a weekend that doesn't clash with >either easter holidays, paganello, open nationals or >those horrid things we call finals... > >Okay, had my tuppence, back to work > >nicole >mohawks > >____________________________________________________________ >Nokia Game is on again. >Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new >all media adventure before November 3rd. 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