From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Wed Oct 31 16:31:44 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9VGSUi14194 for britdisc-outgoing; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:28:30 GMT Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@snowdrop [137.205.192.31]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9VGSSX14179 for <britdisc-real@pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:28:28 GMT Received: from hotmail.com (f135.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.135]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9VGSRR11391 for <Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:28:27 GMT Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:28:21 -0800 Received: from 195.171.163.194 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:28:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [195.171.163.194] From: "Rebecca Humphries" <beccahumphries@hotmail.com> To: Alex.Evans@roomsolutions.net, maaafy_bird@yahoo.co.uk, Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: RE: women Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:28:20 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: <F135n7gz3FB1FxQFM8300017346@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Oct 2001 16:28:21.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DF5D380:01C16229] Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk <html><div style='background-color:'><DIV> <P>Is anyone still reading this?</P> <P>The good thing is at least we're discussing this and most comments are quite encouraging.</P> <P>Whatever happens, let's not develop a sport where women go off one weekend to one end of the country and men somewhere else the next weekend. Let's face it, generally, we like each other, people are attracted by playing a sport with people of the opposite sex.</P> <P>I believe if a tournament is to be open then it should have a womens division as well (if possible) - same location, same pitches.<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>>From: "Evans, Alex" <ALEX.EVANS@ROOMSOLUTIONS.NET> <DIV></DIV>>To: 'Rebecca Humphries' <BECCAHUMPHRIES@HOTMAIL.COM>, maaafy_bird@yahoo.co.uk, Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk <DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: women <DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:27:44 -0000 <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>A co-ed student championships (as well as open and women's) would be of benefit in encouraging female players, although I'm not sure that most university teams' calendars and budgets could run to it. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>However I don't think that there's any more justification for forcing all student competition to go co-ed than there is for introducing a quotient for ethnic minorities (or any other group under-represented in Ultimate). I set up a student team a few years ago (and played in another before that) that actively went out to recruit, train and retain female players, and the results were not that impressive. I believe that the difficulty in attracting women to the sport is not predominantly down to the lack of will or value placed on female players, it's the way in which we go about it. Therefore the increased value placed on female players by making all tournaments co-ed wouldn't have the desired effect unless the methods change as well. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>The main problem is that disc-time, and therefore skills (and confidence) can suffer when you're the only woman playing with a team of men, and of course the fact that even if you make a good cut you're still marked out by a guy a foot taller than you. Anna's suggestion of regional women's teams is an excellent one, an awful lot of women give up the sport before they've ever had the chance to play any single-sex ultimate and simply attending a women only training session could give them the confidence needed to continue. If these teams had enough cohesion to stay together through the summer they could also help establish the Women's Tour. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Paul's suggestion that male students try harder than females is lazy and arrogant. Student teams manage to recruit about (finger in the air) 5 males to every female player. So yeah, there are probably more guys throwing around in the park between practices, but there are also plenty more men than women who are just there for the three-pint-challenges. In my experience, of the freshers who stick with the game for more than a few months, the females nearly always work harder than the average male player because they've chosen to accept the challenge of playing a mixed but male dominated sport. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Alex <DIV></DIV>>Clapham Ultimate <DIV></DIV>>(and formerly Mohawks & Mwnci See) <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>-----Original Message----- <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>From: Rebecca Humphries [mailto:beccahumphries@hotmail.com] <DIV></DIV>>Sent: 31 October 2001 14:04 <DIV></DIV>>To: maaafy_bird@yahoo.co.uk; Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk <DIV></DIV>>Subject: re: women <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Want some more opinion - I doubt it!! <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Just a thought, but can't student regionals/nationals etc be a 2-5 split. You don't need to organise a whole new student competition, just change the gender criteria (it's not strictly co-ed so you don't even have to call it that). <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>It's bloody tough being a woman in student frisbee. When I left uni no one wanted us to play in their teams, so a group of chicks organised their own team - Funky Nuns/Women in Black - and spent a year and a half losing every game we played!! <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Attitudes towards women players has to change at the roots - women will practise, practise, practise if they think it's worth their while. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> >From: Nicole Roberts <DIV></DIV>> >To: Britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk <DIV></DIV>> >Subject: re: women <DIV></DIV>> >Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:34:01 +0000 (GMT) <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >Personally, if that's the way that leeds play then I <DIV></DIV>> >feel very sorry for Anna. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >If you look at the top four teams in student nationals <DIV></DIV>> >last year, 3 of them had a woman playing for them. I <DIV></DIV>> >appreciate that one out of fifteen isn't much, but <DIV></DIV>> >it's a start. <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >A student co-ed tournament is, in my opinion, an <DIV></DIV>> >excellent idea, however it's ran (a 5-2 ratio may be <DIV></DIV>> >necessary). <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >By effectively forcing women on the pitch by playing <DIV></DIV>> >co-ed can only improve the playing standard of student <DIV></DIV>> >women's ultimate, as if any team actually wants to do <DIV></DIV>> >reasonably well then they'll have to use all seven <DIV></DIV>> >players, not just players without breasts... <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >Anyroad, this is probably a bit of a pointless mail <DIV></DIV>> >unless we have some university that's willing to host <DIV></DIV>> >co-ed nationals, and a weekend that doesn't clash with <DIV></DIV>> >either easter holidays, paganello, open nationals or <DIV></DIV>> >those horrid things we call finals... <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >Okay, had my tuppence, back to work <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >nicole <DIV></DIV>> >mohawks <DIV></DIV>> > <DIV></DIV>> >____________________________________________________________ <DIV></DIV>> >Nokia Game is on again. <DIV></DIV>> >Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new <DIV></DIV>> >all media adventure before November 3rd. <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> _____ <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>> <DIV></DIV>>All information is 'Without prejudice' and is the view of the individual and not necessarily the company. <DIV></DIV>>This email and any attachments are only for the use of the addressee. 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