From britdisc-owner@csv.warwick.ac.uk Mon Feb 25 08:40:15 2002 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1P8eEC23494 for <suaaz@mail.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:40:14 GMT Received: from agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@agave [137.205.192.52]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1P8VEE20439; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:31:14 GMT Received: from agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daemon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g1P8SK0K007076 for <britdisc-outgoing@agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:28:20 GMT Received: (from daemon@localhost) by agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.12.0/8.12.0/Submit) id g1P8SK5t007075 for britdisc-outgoing; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:28:20 GMT Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (root@daffodil [137.205.192.30]) by agave.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g1P8SJ0K007070 for <britdisc-real@majordomo.csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:28:19 GMT Received: from ovemailhub1.arup.com (ovemailhub1.arup.com [193.116.20.20]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1P8SIE20228 for <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:28:18 GMT Received: from 193.116.20.221 by ovemailhub1.arup.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:31:23 -0000 Received: from mailhub1.uk.arup.com (127.0.0.1) by mailhub1.arup.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <0.00008143@mailhub1.arup.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 8:28:08 +0000 Received: from 69.69.11.29 by mailhub1.uk.arup.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:28:07 -0000 Received: from a_cnts20.arup.com (hub1) by Exchange-gateway-out (4.1/SMI-SVR4) id AA25060; Mon, 25 Feb 02 08:32:36 GMT Received: by a_cnts20.uk.arup.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <F3DM2PVT>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:30:35 -0000 Message-Id: <BD00B1D505E9434CA3A856B5FA169E3EABCE55@midnts04> From: Andrew Godber <Andrew.Godber@arup.com> To: "'ben@ravilious.net'" <ben@ravilious.net>, britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk Subject: RE: Weston-Super-Mare Pickups required Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:27:06 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPartTM-000-2804a843-7c7b-4a51-90e6-ec419f7bda83" Sender: owner-britdisc@warwick.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------=_NextPartTM-000-2804a843-7c7b-4a51-90e6-ec419f7bda83 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1BDD6.B224ED20" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BDD6.B224ED20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Right, where do I start? First of all I would like to say that obviously I misread the point of Ben's first e-mail, not realising that it was directed to Mr Men. If I had realised this, then I would not have jumped at the chance to respond in the fashion I did. However, I did think that your e-mail needed a little bit of interpretation. (and obviously I got it wrong) I would like to apologise if anyone thought I was suggesting that people could pick-up anyone for the Regionals/Nationals, as I would not commend this. Secondly, I whole-heartedly agree with everyone who has pointed out what a excellent job Ben et al have done in bringing UKU up a level, and making the main events for the Ultimate year a bit more organised and, dare I say it, professional. I thoroughly agree with all of the rostering/registration/membership concepts, and this will help to get all teams' attitudes right. Lastly, before I go on too long, I would like to quickly thank Sam and all at the Nottingham Indoors this weekend for a fabulous tournament, which we all really enjoyed. I hope other teams felt the same, and I look forward to seeing a lot of you at the Birmingham Beginners Tournament, or the Great Barr Crawl over the next 2 weeks. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Ben Ravilious [mailto:ben@ravilious.net] Sent: 22 February 2002 17:52 To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk; Andrew Godber Subject: RE: Weston-Super-Mare Pickups required Andrew and others, To be blunt with you, no I don't think it was either patronising or degrading especially as the team in question are all experienced players who have been playing for years. Every year we get something kicking off because one team or another fields ineligible players or otherwise tries to wing it. The fall-out is usually blame on the organisation for not explaining or communicating something. This year not only are we trying to run things more professionally but there is players hard cash involved - therefore the rules have to be applied. Because this has been somewhat hurried we have said we are willing to make concessions - but ONLY if teams let us know their problems. If a team really has a genuine problem (e.g. someone is badly hurt or they all go down with the 'flu) then of course we can be flexible - just let us know. Touting for pick-ups for Nationals on Britdisc after the roster deadline does not count as 'letting us know' in my book. I repeat what I said earlier in the week, if you want to play in laid back events where noone really minds who you play for then go check out the calendar - there is such a great choice nowadays. The nationals however is the one and only time when this is not acceptable because teams expect a well run and properly policed championship. And for the record I too have work and life commitments (no really!) which is why you must forgive me if I get just a *little* annoyed by teams that just don't give a damn at events which we've worked hard to improve. Enjoy the weekend wherever you are and don't feed the Space Monkeys. Ben ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Andrew Godber <Andrew.Godber@arup.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:49:01 -0000 >Ben, > >I am sure that I am not the only person that finds that comment a little bit >patronising and degrading for the frisbee teams out there that want >pick-ups. We are also struggling for numbers (10 people for 2 teams), but we >are still going to the tournaments. It was briefly suggested that we drop >out of one, but that was immediately dismissed because it would be a crap >thing to do to the organisers. There are times when, despite having 20-30 >active club members, other issues (Injury, work, and just other life >commitments) take hold, and our squads are reduced for tournaments. I am >sure this has happened to other teams, and that is why they are keen to get >pick-ups, and avoid missing the tournament altogether. One of the great >things about Ultimate is the way that it makes people want to play as much >as possible, and I am sure that people are not pulling out because they just >don't feel like it. > >I am sorry to go on and on. This was not meant to be an e-mail entirely >be-moaning our situation, but to ask you if you just want the 5 biggest/best >clubs to turn up to each regional qualifier, and forget about the rest of >the other competitors? Because obviously 'us people' are apparently spoiling >the sport for the rest of you. I am entirely in favour of the >registration/rostering process, but I think you could have phrased your >point a little bit better. > >*Looking forward to running all weekend in an iron-man team* > >Andrew Godber >Slipdisc > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ben Ravilious [mailto:ben@ravilious.net] >Sent: 22 February 2002 16:42 >To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk; Martin Burke >Subject: Re: Weston-Super-Mare Pickups required > > > > >...and 'they' won't let you play in another event until you've registered >and paid any dues. > >Why do you people bother entering the nationals if you can't even get a team >together? > >Ben >UK Ultimate > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "Martin Burke" <martin@suht.swest.nhs.uk> > >>We'll sort the rostering out tomorrow if need be, but remember >they won't >let you play for someone else at the nationals if >>we don't qualify. > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BDD6.B224ED20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2650.12"> <TITLE>RE: Weston-Super-Mare Pickups required</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Right, where do I start?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>First of all I would like to say that obviously I = misread the point of Ben's first e-mail, not realising that it was = directed to Mr Men. If I had realised this, then I would not have = jumped at the chance to respond in the fashion I did. However, I did = think that your e-mail needed a little bit of interpretation. (and = obviously I got it wrong) I would like to apologise if anyone thought I = was suggesting that people could pick-up anyone for the = Regionals/Nationals, as I would not commend this.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Secondly, I whole-heartedly agree with everyone who = has pointed out what a excellent job Ben et al have done in bringing = UKU up a level, and making the main events for the Ultimate year a bit = more organised and, dare I say it, professional. I thoroughly agree = with all of the rostering/registration/membership concepts, and this = will help to get all teams' attitudes right.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lastly, before I go on too long, I would like to = quickly thank Sam and all at the Nottingham Indoors this weekend for a = fabulous tournament, which we all really enjoyed. I hope other teams = felt the same, and I look forward to seeing a lot of you at the = Birmingham Beginners Tournament, or the Great Barr Crawl over the next = 2 weeks.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Andy</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ben Ravilious [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:ben@ravilious.net">mailto:ben@ravilious.net</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: 22 February 2002 17:52</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk; Andrew Godber</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: RE: Weston-Super-Mare Pickups = required</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Andrew and others,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>To be blunt with you, no I don't think it was either = patronising or degrading especially as the team in question are all = experienced players who have been playing for years.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Every year we get something kicking off because one = team or another fields ineligible players or otherwise tries to wing = it. The fall-out is usually blame on the organisation for not = explaining or communicating something. This year not only are we trying = to run things more professionally but there is players hard cash = involved - therefore the rules have to be applied. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Because this has been somewhat hurried we have said = we are willing to make concessions - but ONLY if teams let us know = their problems. If a team really has a genuine problem (e.g. someone is = badly hurt or they all go down with the 'flu) then of course we can be = flexible - just let us know. Touting for pick-ups for Nationals on = Britdisc after the roster deadline does not count as 'letting us know' = in my book.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I repeat what I said earlier in the week, if you want = to play in laid back events where noone really minds who you play for = then go check out the calendar - there is such a great choice nowadays. = The nationals however is the one and only time when this is not = acceptable because teams expect a well run and properly policed = championship.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>And for the record I too have work and life = commitments (no really!) which is why you must forgive me if I get just = a *little* annoyed by teams that just don't give a damn at events which = we've worked hard to improve.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Enjoy the weekend wherever you are and don't feed the = Space Monkeys.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ben </FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>---------- Original Message = ----------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Andrew Godber = <Andrew.Godber@arup.com></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:49:01 -0000</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Ben,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>I am sure that I am not the only person that = finds that comment a little bit</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>patronising and degrading for the frisbee teams = out there that want</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>pick-ups. We are also struggling for numbers (10 = people for 2 teams), but we</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>are still going to the tournaments. It was = briefly suggested that we drop</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>out of one, but that was immediately dismissed = because it would be a crap</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>thing to do to the organisers. There are times = when, despite having 20-30</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>active club members, other issues (Injury, work, = and just other life</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>commitments) take hold, and our squads are = reduced for tournaments. I am</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>sure this has happened to other teams, and that = is why they are keen to get</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>pick-ups, and avoid missing the tournament = altogether. One of the great</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>things about Ultimate is the way that it makes = people want to play as much</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>as possible, and I am sure that people are not = pulling out because they just</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>don't feel like it.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>I am sorry to go on and on. This was not meant = to be an e-mail entirely</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>be-moaning our situation, but to ask you if you = just want the 5 biggest/best</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>clubs to turn up to each regional qualifier, and = forget about the rest of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>the other competitors? Because obviously 'us = people' are apparently spoiling</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>the sport for the rest of you. I am entirely in = favour of the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>registration/rostering process, but I think you = could have phrased your</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>point a little bit better.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>*Looking forward to running all weekend in an = iron-man team*</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Andrew Godber</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Slipdisc</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>From: Ben Ravilious [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:ben@ravilious.net">mailto:ben@ravilious.net</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Sent: 22 February 2002 16:42</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>To: britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk; Martin = Burke</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Subject: Re: Weston-Super-Mare Pickups = required</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>...and 'they' won't let you play in another = event until you've registered</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>and paid any dues.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Why do you people bother entering the nationals = if you can't even get a team</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>together?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Ben </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>UK Ultimate </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>---------- Original Message = ----------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>From: "Martin Burke" = <martin@suht.swest.nhs.uk></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>>We'll sort the rostering out tomorrow if = need be, but remember >they won't</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>let you play for someone else at the nationals = if </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>>>we don't qualify.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>></FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1BDD6.B224ED20-- ------=_NextPartTM-000-2804a843-7c7b-4a51-90e6-ec419f7bda83--