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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:20 +0100
From: "Dave Neilson" <D.P.Neilson@warwick.ac.uk>
To: <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mixed Teams In Major Tournaments
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I would warn against the idea of imposing too many restrictions on the
make-up of teams. Offer incentives, by all means, for the geo model if
that seems appropriate, but the idea of outlawing telephone teams is
crazy!

I beg to differ with Ben about the inability of 'old boys' (& girls of
couse) teams achieving "anything serious or long-term". The case of STAN
must be considered as counter-evidence to Ben's argument. Formed as a
splinter group of the then national champions, STAN was composed almost
entirely of ex-Bears who chose to play together as they shared a common
style and sense of humour. Despite averaging about one practice per
year, they stayed together for 12 years - yes TWELVE! - and were rarely
outside of the top three teams in the country.

I know times have changed, but the potential still exists - I have
witnessed first hand the very high standard of the top student teams and
many established 'club' teams owe their strength to a series of
graduates from the same institution (NB not quite the same thing as
'cherry picking'). Please note, I am not actively promoting this model,
but using it as an example of how flawed some armchair theorists can
be!

The observation about the mobility of "young professionals" is also an
important factor in this debate ... although I must admit that few would
say that any STAN player was ever "young" and we could never be accused
of being "professional" in any way, shape or form!

Thanks for your time. I'm off to New Zealand, so why should I care? ...
Well I do!

Sam Neilson

PS What was it Mel Gibson said in Braveheart? ...
"You can take away our telephones, but you can never take away our
FREEDOM!"
... forcing the geo model could result in civil war!

>>> "Ben Ravilious" <ben@ravilious.net> 10/04/2002 08:10:05 >>>
Jon,

If you ask me, travelling all that way to play with your chosen team
is
crazy but thats your choice! If we're talking about doing something for
the
good of the sport it would be much more helpful if you brought your
experience (and loyalty) to a local team near you. I appreciate that
that is
easier said than done though.

I also despair at the number of university 'old boys' teams which
spring up
each year. I can understand wanting to stay in contact with uni friends
and
maybe playing a few fun tournaments together for a laugh but there's no
way
these teams are going to achieve anything serious or long-term unless
you
live near each other. Now that we have contact details for everyone I
very
much want to encourage graduates to go find (or start) a local team
they can
contribute to. This will be better for them in the long run (you get to
play
regularly!) and help strengthen of regionally-based teams.

I believe the geo rules for the Tour simply say that all players must
live
within a 75 mile radius of somewhere - correct me if I'm wrong - its
never
been an issue for my team!

Enough from me now I think.

Ben

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Good" <funky_like_a_train@hotmail.com>
To: <ben@ravilious.net>; <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Sent: 09 April 2002 22:30
Subject: Re: Mixed Teams In Major Tournaments


> >Playing in international tournaments is fantastic fun and I'm glad
I've
> > >been lucky enough to have done this on a number of occasions
myself.
> > >However, as individual players we must recognise that doing this
should
> > >be on the basis of long-term commitment to a team. If we have
this
> >attitude then we will end up with more committed teams and therefore
more
> > >*individual* players getting the chance to attend. Heck if you're
not
> > >going to Hawaii go to Brugge/Rotterdam/Rimini/wherever instead -
you
will
> > >still have a good time and you don't need UK Ultimate to approve
your
> > >roster for this!!!
>
> Ben,
>     I have to agree with you on the player loyalty issue. I've played
for
> BAF for about 5 years now, through my university career in Scotland.
I
think
> player loyalty is hard as Ultimate comes from a student base, and as
such
a
> lot of younger (no offense to 'older' players) players move around
the
> country a lot as they go to uni and the struggle to find a job. I may
well
> have this wrong but for geo teams aren't you supposed to live nearer
them
> than any other team? These two things just don't add  up. If I am
right
> (doubtful) on the geo team thing, can't we have some kind of waver
for
> players who have been at the club for a decent length of time? Sorry
if
I've
> got my facts wrong but I can't check them at the moment.
>
> Le Boeuf
> #44
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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