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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:37:58 +0100
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From: "Ben Ravilious" <ben@ravilious.net>
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Subject: Re: Mixed Teams In Major Tournaments
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Sammy,

I thought most Stan players lived in the West Midlands area?

For the record I also don't want to see more restrictions - fundamentally should people have the choice to do whatever they like. I am actually becoming more sceptical of the current 'geo' system - seems a bit contrived to me nowadays - most people would naturally choose to play geo if the circumstances were right.

My suggestion is that we should encourage *loyalty* (by discouraging roster additions for international clubs events, for example). I think this is more palatable than annoying nanny-state regulations and would help local teams.

I dunno - food for thought anyway.

Best of British babbling luck in NZ!

;-)

Ben



---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Dave Neilson" <D.P.Neilson@warwick.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:53:20 +0100

>I would warn against the idea of imposing too many restrictions on the
>make-up of teams. Offer incentives, by all means, for the geo model if
>that seems appropriate, but the idea of outlawing telephone teams is
>crazy!
>
>I beg to differ with Ben about the inability of 'old boys' (& girls of
>couse) teams achieving "anything serious or long-term". The case of STAN
>must be considered as counter-evidence to Ben's argument. Formed as a
>splinter group of the then national champions, STAN was composed almost
>entirely of ex-Bears who chose to play together as they shared a common
>style and sense of humour. Despite averaging about one practice per
>year, they stayed together for 12 years - yes TWELVE! - and were rarely
>outside of the top three teams in the country.
>
>I know times have changed, but the potential still exists - I have
>witnessed first hand the very high standard of the top student teams and
>many established 'club' teams owe their strength to a series of
>graduates from the same institution (NB not quite the same thing as
>'cherry picking'). Please note, I am not actively promoting this model,
>but using it as an example of how flawed some armchair theorists can
>be!
>
>The observation about the mobility of "young professionals" is also an
>important factor in this debate ... although I must admit that few would
>say that any STAN player was ever "young" and we could never be accused
>of being "professional" in any way, shape or form!
>
>Thanks for your time. I'm off to New Zealand, so why should I care? ...
>Well I do!
>
>Sam Neilson
>
>PS What was it Mel Gibson said in Braveheart? ...
>"You can take away our telephones, but you can never take away our
>FREEDOM!"
>... forcing the geo model could result in civil war!
>
>>>> "Ben Ravilious" <ben@ravilious.net> 10/04/2002 08:10:05 >>>
>Jon,
>
>If you ask me, travelling all that way to play with your chosen team
>is
>crazy but thats your choice! If we're talking about doing something for
>the
>good of the sport it would be much more helpful if you brought your
>experience (and loyalty) to a local team near you. I appreciate that
>that is
>easier said than done though.
>
>I also despair at the number of university 'old boys' teams which
>spring up
>each year. I can understand wanting to stay in contact with uni friends
>and
>maybe playing a few fun tournaments together for a laugh but there's no
>way
>these teams are going to achieve anything serious or long-term unless
>you
>live near each other. Now that we have contact details for everyone I
>very
>much want to encourage graduates to go find (or start) a local team
>they can
>contribute to. This will be better for them in the long run (you get to
>play
>regularly!) and help strengthen of regionally-based teams.
>
>I believe the geo rules for the Tour simply say that all players must
>live
>within a 75 mile radius of somewhere - correct me if I'm wrong - its
>never
>been an issue for my team!
>
>Enough from me now I think.
>
>Ben
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jon Good" <funky_like_a_train@hotmail.com>
>To: <ben@ravilious.net>; <britdisc@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
>Sent: 09 April 2002 22:30
>Subject: Re: Mixed Teams In Major Tournaments
>
>
>> >Playing in international tournaments is fantastic fun and I'm glad
>I've
>> > >been lucky enough to have done this on a number of occasions
>myself.
>> > >However, as individual players we must recognise that doing this
>should
>> > >be on the basis of long-term commitment to a team. If we have
>this
>> >attitude then we will end up with more committed teams and therefore
>more
>> > >*individual* players getting the chance to attend. Heck if you're
>not
>> > >going to Hawaii go to Brugge/Rotterdam/Rimini/wherever instead -
>you
>will
>> > >still have a good time and you don't need UK Ultimate to approve
>your
>> > >roster for this!!!
>>
>> Ben,
>>     I have to agree with you on the player loyalty issue. I've played
>for
>> BAF for about 5 years now, through my university career in Scotland.
>I
>think
>> player loyalty is hard as Ultimate comes from a student base, and as
>such
>a
>> lot of younger (no offense to 'older' players) players move around
>the
>> country a lot as they go to uni and the struggle to find a job. I may
>well
>> have this wrong but for geo teams aren't you supposed to live nearer
>them
>> than any other team? These two things just don't add  up. If I am
>right
>> (doubtful) on the geo team thing, can't we have some kind of waver
>for
>> players who have been at the club for a decent length of time? Sorry
>if
>I've
>> got my facts wrong but I can't check them at the moment.
>>
>> Le Boeuf
>> #44
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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